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references SDGIRLS AlibabaUni GAIIB (Girls Asian Infrastructire Investmet Branding places need to map most valuable assets in SDG world are its girls and icommons/infrastucuture) -OPTHREAT crises 1 WRJC  OpenSpace  ( partner diaries UNwomens - curiosities of year 50 of entrepreneurial revolution- human brain forgets 10% of whats its most passionate every 6 months unless it keeps practicising (team action learning) it; conversely computer brain never forgets but doesnt know why it needs passion to ask what is changing 8 billion humans organisation (what IT and AI cant know about futures as that depends on how billion people link it)

BRAC 49 years- Bangladesh: how did today's world's largest NGO partnership in women endging poverty leap forward over 7 periods of 7 years?

starting with next to nothing in 1972 other than the poorest and hardest working communities -improve our survey with links rsvp

Bill Gates: there is always more exponential change in 7 years than leaders expect, always less change in 3 years -a huge challenge for innovative learning organskiation let alone partnership networks

so how did BRAC- the world's largest NGO partnership version through 7 by 7 years 1972-2020 -and apart from celebrating most trusted movement in SDGirls world  how did its brand leadership chartering always stay ahead of the curve in integrating its number 1 goal girls end poverty with all sustainability goals - please help us survey brac

... explore microfrancise designs replication How villages poorest girl sustain economy across generations of family and community building

NB how many type 2  bottom-up patterns can you find to app  –discipline of servant leader: no expert silos; edu  livelihood skills for all not within a government system; economics reinvents aid models- social business and big data-small direct transfer; from grassroots networks (person to person with no electrictity) to hi-tech hi-trust partners celebrating SDGs….

 version 7 2014-2020

2018 jack ma takes 20% partnership in brac's fintech network bkash- opening gateway to banking for billion poorest women across ino-s-asia; ma with melinda gates charged by guterres to report back by march 2019 how tech (digital coop) can dhange every service and SDgorls lives- report will be shared with 100 leaders who want to map belt raids to end poverty on every contint upgrading ifs=rastructure, designing new dev bankingt - freeing 3000 trillion doallars of liquid assets for sdg zones 

ngo advisor ranks brac top - sir fazle interview 

 Melinda Gates discusses how mobile banking lifts women out of ...
Kamal Quadir applies technology to allow people to advance economically, which in its wake bring about social progress.
Ant Financial and bKash have signed a strategic partnership deal. Eric Jing, executive chairman and CEO of Ant Financial, tells ...



Version 1  72-78 -BRAC is founded as NGO - where sir fazle and his team go and live and learn with villagers ---50 square mile rural disaster region as lab/hub for

Person to person, mother to  mother, peer to peer action learning network 

14 thousand homes had to be rebuilt as part of the relief effort, as well as several hundred fishing boats; BRAC claims to have done this within nine months, as well as opening medical centres and providing other essential services.[11][non-primary source needed]

 est any solution – disaster readiness; end hunger- eg rice science  (sir fazle artcicle)   with china  ;

Until the mid-1970s, BRAC concentrated on community development through village development programmes that included agriculture, fisheries, cooperatives, rural crafts, adult literacy, health and family planning, vocational training for women and construction of community centres.

 Version 3 83-89 2ndconditional cash transfer village primary includes mash up of required gov curricula and new practices- joy of cultures, financial literacy 3rdgrade partnership wth aflatoun, health liut 5thgrade (brac has emerged as largest non government schools)

  social business multiply around whole agricultjural value chains and microfinance microfranchises

 In parallel Grameen version 1 founded -grameen ordinance 1983 of vilage bnak for poor- note whilst yunus aim was to make grameen majority owned by its poor members- the constitution was ultimately a government bank -not having same long term freedoms of brac's constitutional form..........................................


Version 4  88-95 aid world  starts saying its interested in bangladesh's new economic model empowering bottom billion girls instead of aid as it works withinglobal macroeconomics geared to worlds top 10 men owning more than bottom 40% 


yunus pr machine starts Grameen dialogues May 4-16, 1991 (Clintons visit yunus before starting presidency)

 Brac starts working on long term partners of whole financial value chain inside Bangladesh-eg to go beyond 4 year poitical cycles of usaid or dfid 

Prep for transition of first communications village-globe-vilage microsummits


 Version 5 96-04 Tech partners come to Bangladesh


World class branding of bangladesh open university of microcredit

Yunus test tech of solar and mobile village telephone ladies (with quadkirs, telenor , soros)


Brac conditions for long term partners:


First joint projects abroad- one great partner per nation collaborated with -see for main global partners.......................................
 Version 6  05-13 milennium youth goals networking link world wide- best long-term partners move to brac eg quadirs soros kim; conceptualisation of bkash –



Nobel awards yunus a laureate, the queen nights sir fazle abed


Yunus fame peaks and is quite violently closed down by gov;

 China (eg  jack ma amd credit ease ceo) starts looking at Bangladesh- example of progress of james grant school as go-to college for future public servants 1...................................................


 BRAC is the ngo collaboration world's number 1 example of Franciscan POP (Preferential Option Poor)- go live, learn with poorest, observe broken systems, partner in other professionals to empower girs to fix broken or leap beyond  systems (eg villages that never had access to electricity grids value microsolar) , apply technolgy preferenetailly to poorest(see rhs for updates) below we continue with understangdng how brac never leaves its ciore - helpong girls to end ultra poverty


 Shadia Khatun Community Health Volunteer BRAC At the heart of BRAC’s health program are community health volunteers – Shasthya Shebikas. This network of 70,000 volunteers visits more than 18 million homes every month offering primary health care services. They are supervised by a second line of health workers known as ShasthyaKormis. One health volunteer describes how she became a health volunteer and the positive impact it has on her life and confidence levels. There was a time when Shadia was afraid every time she left the house. "I would always cover my head and stand in the corner,” she recalled. Shadia’s life is now quite the opposite. Since becoming a BRAC Shasthya Shebika, community health worker, Shadia says, "Things are different than they were before. I am much more confident." Shadia’s transformation began eight years ago. Her youngest daughter was suddenly struck blind and Shadia did not know how to take care of her. “I didn’t know where to take her. I visited so many doctors and no one could help.” In response to this situation, and despite the fact that she had never received an education, Shadiadedicated herself becoming a Shasthya Shebika. Today, Shadia is a highly competent health worker. “I am always busy,” she remarked. “I visit fifteen homes every day. I find out who is pregnant, who is taking pills, and who is getting injections. If I find someone who has been coughing for 3 weeks, I tell them to get tested for TB. This is my work.” When Shadia first established herself as the community health volunteer, people treated her with respect and admiration for the first time in her life. Previously known as one of the quieter members of her community, she had become accustomed to being ignored by her neighbors. Now she is seen as one of the most important people in her village. “Everyone in the village knows I am a Shasthya Shebika," she said. "If someone becomes sick, everyone tells them to come to my house.” The respect Shadia receives from her peers motivates her to work harder. She does not rest until she knows that every person has received the support they need. Shadia sees it as her duty to do all she can to take care of the community she loves. “I want to work for these people. I’m not very beautiful, I don’t have that much money, but still people look for me. That’s why whenever they call for me, I will always go.” Shadia is proud of how far she has come since starting her work as a health volunteer. "Before, when a visitor would come, even if they were BRAC officers, I would shake with nerves," she said. "Now I have become courageous; now I stand confidently.”



download bios of millions of women who built Bangladesh

the movemengts started around bangaldesh girls from a yera iof independence have inspired the wprld - here are 2 testimonies of love for bankikng networks which unlkike brac appear to no longer be owned by and for the poorest - tell us if you have any testimonies on what hapened to jamii bora in particular



trascript of mrs begum interview at grameen mkirpur hq- ju;ly 2008 on what life was like for bangakdesh village girls/mothers in 1970s

 Mrs Begum


0:00:21.8                 Facilitator:                           a two or three minute video, we’d try and get that story on film as the first part.  And the second part would be of a more table discussion.  Because everyone here is incredibly interested that this organisation doesn't just have business acumen, but you’re bringing heart to everything.  I don’t have the right language for it.  It’s sort of [Ganjin] love of stuff and this is a subject that…

0:01:03.9                 Interviewee (MRS NURJAHAN BEGUM FOUNDING FEMALE DIRECTOR GRAMEEN WITH DR MUHAMMADYUNUS SINCE 1974):                        Yeah, that’s a good…

0:01:04.5                 Facilitator:                           …my friends especially try and get over to you, so they would like to talk about.  But if that makes sense, that would probably be great.  So Mark our cameraman will guide us…

0:01:19.0                 Facilitator:                           …to begin with, …

0:01:21.6                 Interviewee:                        I just completed my Masters Degree from Chittagong University.  My doctorate was teaching economics, the same university.  After my Masters Degree I’m trying to find a job and I applied to a few companies.  There was one Canadian organisation named Carol – the lady – who is handling this NGO, and the name of the organisation was [unclear].

0:02:00.2                                                             So I applied and they called me and I appeared at the interview and they selected me, I don't know, and I thought that maybe I can get permission from my mum to start the job.  I went back to my mum and she was not really happy to give me permission to start the job.

0:02:27.5                                                             It was a very good salary and with the furnished quarters everything was okay, but my mum doesn't like that an unmarried woman should start a job so she was a little bit afraid.  So Carol waited for me one month and…she wait for me one month, but I failed to convince my mum.  So after getting…why my mum is not giving me permission, because my thinking was…on myself…depending others, like in Bangladesh.  Normally women depend on the father, husband or son, but I’m not thinking that way.

0:03:22.9                                                             So that time Dr Yunus called me because he knows me better, so he told me that can you do that.  So I told him all the story about what happened with me and what happened with my mum, so he told me why not…student of Chittagong University, you are leaving the university hall.  Now you can convince her that way, and then I went to my mum and talked to her and she knows very well Dr Yunus.  So he gave me the permission and I started the job.  And why?  Why Dr Yunus needed women?  I think if I go back 32 years before, the scenery, what you can so today, is quite different.  Women mobility was very, very restricted.  Women cannot move from one house to another house, one village to another village, without permission from the husband or the head of the family.  And somebody had to accompany them.

0:04:25.0                                                             The situation of the women was very, very worse.  [Unclear] is common.  Divorce is – a man can divorce his wife at anytime.  A man can have one, two, three, four wives, whatever he likes.  If he leaves a wife with the children, it doesn't matter, they go another place.  So the condition of the women is very, very vulnerable and if the husband divorces, she has to go back to the parents house.  And if parents are poor, they cannot support her. Then she has to beg - that’s the scenario.

0:04:58.0                                                             And lots of superstitions that - family planning, nobody can think about that, so six, seven, nine, ten children is common, and malnutrition babies are common.  So all this scenario…superstitions, all things…illiteracy, so with all this kind of situation, women cannot move out.  And not only that, if we are not – doesn't have any dream, so if you don’t think that I can proceed from this stage to this stage, if you don’t have any dream, then how we can proceed.  So Dr Yunus told me that you see that situation…if you can put some dream to these people, they can proceed.  So our first is to put some dreams.

0:05:57.5                                                             And because he cannot talk to the women straight away, because women are not allowed to come in front of the men and men cannot enter the home, so I was the intermediary.  When he wants to talk to women I am with him and I am going to the men, women, to talk to them, and then assist with Dr Yunus and Dr Yunus assist with them.  So we are starting that way, and it was easy for him also to convey.

0:06:29.1                                                             So as Dr Yunus, you know him better, and he’s lovely to the children.  He goes to the village or in the house, so he sits down…and all the children are coming to him, he’s loving the children and going to the women, talking to the women and coming to the message.  So we have started with the women.

0:06:53.4                 Facilitator:                           That’s beautiful.  How long were you the first female employee of Grameen?

0:06:59.8                 Interviewee:                        Pardon?

0:07:00.9                 Facilitator:                           For how long were you the only woman working in Grameen – oh sorry – amongst the group of people that became…

0:07:07.7                 Interviewee:                        Today?

0:07:09.5                 Facilitator:                           I mean, you started with Dr Yunus…

0:07:11.3                 Interviewee:                        From the beginning yeah.

0:07:12.1                 Facilitator:                           From the beginning?

0:07:12.6                 Interviewee:                        Yeah, yeah.

0:07:13.2                 Facilitator:                           And at the beginning, how many other people were there and how long was it before there was a second female employee…idea as one, so could we try and repeat that bit from there and then go to the general interview.  Would that suit?

0:07:36.1                 Facilitator:                           Should you not like it in the form of a question to start off?

0:07:39.8                 Facilitator:                           Yeah I think – what Chris is saying is that the question would be something like your initial work really inspired women to have dreams.  Is that right; is that what you want to bring out?  If you keep it as a question…

0:07:57.1                 Facilitator:                           Or maybe it’s just a bit more open like – I’ll just say what was your work like at the beginning…an important thing was inspiring the dreams…actually when was it, the first year you started work, was it 1976?

0:08:27.4                 Interviewee:                        Should I start again?

0:08:28.6                 Facilitator:                           …I don't know which bit you want…do you want a bit shorter…

0:08:37.4                 Interviewee:                        Please don’t hesitate if you want something…

0:08:42.7                 Facilitator:                           Everything you said was beautiful and we’ll find a way of transcripting all of it, but the two minute bit on a sort of YouTube, if we could start more or less like – if I ask you what was it like at the beginning.  And you come in the bit where you said the really important thing was looking at these women, both Dr Yunus and you realised it’s necessary to inspire their dreams, and how you and Dr Yunus worked together to do that.

0:09:14.4                 Interviewee:                        Okay.

0:09:17.5                 Facilitator:                           So if we go back to the beginning of Grameen in 1976 when you and Dr Yunus were the first people, what was it like at the beginning?

0:09:27.2                 Interviewee:                        Actually, what doctor installed in me, that you know the poor people doesn't have any dream.  [Unclear] understood that okay, [unclear] came and [unclear] so that doesn't have any dream, so Dr Yunus asked me – we should put some dreams to their hearts so that they can think about, and they can see okay, our children’s future will be different.

0:09:59.4                                                             So it was our goal during that time to inspire the people, how they can come to make a beautiful future for their own and for their children.

00:10:15.9               Facilitator:                           And your work initially in terms of finding these people and talking to them and explaining why they needed credit?

0:10:24.6                 Interviewee:                        If I go back to the two years before, the situation of the women was very, very…women mobility was very, very restricted.  Men can divorce wives at anytime, so if a husband divorces his wife, she has to come back to the parents’ family and if the parents cannot feed, then the situation is a very, very…illiteracy was common, a lot of superstitions.  Normally the thing that if you are pregnant you should not eat more, because the baby will be grown up and it will be difficult to produce that baby.  So you know the cause of the malnutrition.  Not only the food, at the same time they do not have any idea about all these things.

0:11:12.3                                                             Diarrhoea was a common disease during that time.  No cleanliness, and poverty everywhere, culturally or economically or socially a lot of [unclear].  So we have the responsibility to bring all these women from that situation to another situation.  So you start talking with the women and due to restriction of the social restrictions, religious restrictions, Dr Yunus cannot talk to the women directly.  So he asked me to talk to the women.

0:11:54.7                                                             So when we are going to some village, Dr Yunus was sitting in the [cold air] and talking to the children and he’s very loving, he’s like children very much.  So all the children get together in front of Dr Yunus, he’s laughing with the children and then going to the home, talking to the women and bringing their message to Dr Yunus, and Dr Yunus’s message to them.  So we are starting that way.

0:12:21.1                 Facilitator:                           How long did it take before the women understood the idea of credit?

0:12:27.8                 Interviewee:                        Gradually we start to talk to the women, but first initial reaction okay, I’m a woman, I cannot do anything.  My husband is responsible for any economic activities.  Most of them never touch money with their own hand, because the husband is bringing all the things so she is not really handling any money matters. 

0:12:47.3                                                             So when we started talking to them and they were really, really surprised, oh you go to my husband, he can do something, I cannot do anything.  So we start to gradually convince the women to take some money to start up some business, so some of them – very few – first loanee was Sophia [unclear].  She came and she was a beggar and start to work.  And others were just observing what was going on.

0:13:16.7                                                             Then one by one coming up…those who have…the money and gradually are doing better.  But it was not a very easy task.  From the beginning we had in our mind that at least 50% should be the women and 50% should be the men.  To talk about that is easy, but to involve women in that scenario, it was not easy.  So it takes time.

0:13:47.1                                                             We have to talk with the husband, the main member of the family.  We have to talk with the women.  So after the convince, we start to work.  So you see, the women situation is gradually getting better.  One thing I should say, how women feel much better and the position came up.  I was in a workshop in Tangi in 1979, and in that workshop – maybe ’79 or ’80 – I’m talking about is there any change with their family, with their husband, the relationship.  So one woman mentioned my husband…take me to doctor or never bring me any medicine if I feel sick.  But later when I joined Grameen and I’m in money, now the situation is my husband goes to the doctor, brings the medicine.  So I asked what is the reason behind?  She told me that this is – I am earning women – this important thing that you are depending on yourself, not dependent on others, husband or son or the father…and you come yourself and you are only women, thus give you some confidence.  And this is the dignity of life.

0:15:18.0                                                             So what Dr Yunus wants, to bring the dignity among all these women, vulnerable women, so that they can make their own future, they can make their children’s future, because the mother always loves her child very much.      

0:15:33.6                 Facilitator:                           That’s wonderful.  Thank you for telling us about the beginnings…

0:15:46.5                 Facilitator:                           In your work now, what would you say is the most important part of your work now?

0:15:51.9                 Interviewee:                        In Grameen?

0:15:52.7                 Facilitator:                           Yeah.

0:15:53.6                 Interviewee:                        Okay.  You see the now situation in Grameen.  I have the responsibility of all – what is going on.  So I’m looking – this is not a very difficult part for me.  I don’t see any difficult part but there is a lot of good work we have to do.  In Grameen, besides the Grameen I’m also responsible for the Grameen Shikkha.  This is another sister company of Grameen Bank.  So I’m the managing director of this company, but this is my voluntary job.  So there is a good programme, a scholarship management programme. 

0:16:35.1                                                             So what I am doing for this programme – and he’s also involved – he’s also one of the sponsors of Grameen Shikkha.  What I am doing – many children in Bangladesh are very, very talented but due to economical bad situation, they cannot continue their education after O level.  So what Grameen Shikkha does, we are trying to find some sponsors.  A sponsor can deposit their money in the Grameen Shikkha.  The money is sponsored, but what I am doing, I am just using the income of the money and giving this money, 6% to the children, boys and girls.  It is not that she or he has to be the Grameen Bank’s people, no.  Anyone in the community, if she’s poor or he’s poor, boys and girls, they can get this money for continuing their education.

0:17:36.9                                                             So Grameen Shikkha is taking the management part and a sponsor can have all the information about the boys or girls they are supporting.  And now today I reached 2,000 students and they are doing a very good job.  Just this year, 79 children appeared in O level, that means in Bangladesh [unclear].  One got A Plus and 30 got A, and the remaining B and A minus.  No one failed.  So you see, they are becoming our future.  The whole scenario of the family is that their parents don’t know how to read, how to write, but their children are in a better position.

0:18:27.2                                                             So that’s a challenging job for me to bring and to manage all these things.  I started some vocation and training programme through Grameen Shikkha.  If you like you can visit our vocational…and this year I started this programme.  This is also my goal and Dr Yunus’s goal that many children, they drop out at the age of 13, 14, 15, because their parents cannot support.  And now they are going to different places, gossiping or playing, gambling, so if you visit some places you can see that scenario.  So I’m trying to bring all these children to the vocational and training programme, so I started electronics vocational programme, electrical programmes, industrial sewing and sewing, so I have set up two in this situation, one in Dhaka, one in [Jhenaidaha], the poorest area of Bangladesh.

0:19:30.5                                                             So they’re now starting this journey and they’ve already started – some of them are already going to finish after six months so they will get involved with their own job, and we are trying to find a job for them.  There are some sister companies also in Grameen and others.

0:19:54.2                 Facilitator:                           Is there similarly between that role of engaging the children who are dropping out, and your role when you started of engaging the women into microcredit?  Is there any similarity there?

0:20:06.2                 Interviewee:                        There are some similarities there.  You see, the women’s situation is different.  I already mentioned that scenario of the women was during that time very, very vulnerable and not only economically, socially, they are always different.  The children’s situation, maybe parents cannot afford continuing education or sometimes not only the parents that…situation, children are maybe a little bit reluctant.  They are not fond of education so they drop out.

0:20:42.2                                                             Socially sometimes if you are not doing the thing and you are engaged with some bad things, and it creates a lot of other bad impact on the society.  So if we engage them in a working position, then it can create a different situation.  So what I am trying to bring these children – they have to start a job.  They can create their own job.  The funding is there.  If he can take some money from Grameen Bank, he can create his own business.  Say I know how to repair the mobile phones, so I can set up my own official some place, so I can start – Grameen Bank can give them money and they can start, if he is poor, because I am trying to work with the poor people.  So this is a good opportunity for them to work out from that situation. 

0:21:44.5                                                             Like if you are a woman, girl, if she knows how to think she can find a job or she can take a credit from Grameen Bank or any other NGO’s and buy a sewing machine and start own income.  And later on she can involve other women too in that village to earning money, even they can supply…so there’s a good opportunity to create a job for herself and also for other people.        

0:22:21.6                 Facilitator:                           One of the things that fascinated me is that I’ve seen some service organisations, when they start up with five or ten people, they have a passion to serve, they love to inspire people.  To grow to 25,000 people and keep that passion, I’m wondering how you manage to achieve that?

0:22:42.2                 Interviewee:                        Okay.  I think you know I’m involved with the training programme of Grameen Bank, so I’m responsible for the international training and also our internal training.  So now that we have 26,000 staff altogether, actually it’s dependent on the system, how we build the system.  In Grameen our training programme is learning by doing, so we never give any job to a person who has the experience – not like that – we are just looking for fresh people from the university or the college.  So there’s two entry points.  One is the college level and entering the master level, so when we recruit them we give them two days briefing in the training institute and then send them to the village, attach them to the branch, so give them some assignments, some work, not training manual.  They deal directly…training manual, because we tell them okay, discover yourself Grameen Bank and try to find how it slots. 

0:23:55.8                                                             So they go to the branch and start to work, so this is a learning by doing so they know the system.  So when there is a system you can continue that.  I should say in Bangladesh two times we have the champion of corruption, but in Grameen I don't think so.  I should say that is 0%, and we took that very seriously any corruption, number to misbehave the women.  Anybody – if they do that you can sack from the Grameen Bank.  So we’ve built a system so that everybody can follow the system.  So with this system, nobody can involve with the kind of corruption.  If someone does that in our mechanism, we can find it out and sack.  So this is the…

0:25:07.0                 Facilitator:                           Thirty years…in that time you talked about the state of women and the state of children before, so from your perspective do you see Grameen – and what specific impact has Grameen had?  I mean, has Grameen been the main driver of change in empowering women and empowering children?  Do you see Grameen as being – if there was history with Grameen and without Grameen, what do you think?

0:25:41.0                 Interviewee:                        I should say yes, because we believe that all the human beings on this talent have their own talent.  Whatever you know literate or whatever you’re illiterate, what about it.  You have some kind of talents.  Only due to opportunity you can not use properly, so when Grameen brings the opportunity through credit then you see the result.  They start to work and bring their prosperity for the whole family.  And if you look on our [16 decision], you’ll see there’s a socialism doctrine…

0:27:50.4                                                             The employment of women, I already mentioned that if you don’t have any money, you cannot arm yourself, if you are dependent all the time on other people.  You cannot…and not only employment but the dignity.  If you do something then you can defend…you can get your confidence.  Like when you start with Grameen, it was commonsense for us to teach them how to write their name, because most of the women – not only the women – men, woman – don’t know how to read, how to write.

0:28:29.9                                                             During that time – so maybe 13% was the literacy rate, so no one knows how to write their own name.  So it was a very difficult part for us to teach them how to write their name, so we are not teaching the alphabet, but we are teaching how to draw the signature.  So when a woman learns how to write her name, she gets a different kind of satisfaction, yes, I can do that.  To write her own name by her own hand, this was a different thing for her, and sometimes some women think okay, if I can write my own name I can give some food to the mass…sometimes in that way, because she never thought that she could write her name.

0:29:22.6                                                             So this is the confidence that you are getting from yourself, so confidence is a very important thing, it was very important, because then you can proceed.  And appointment of the women in many ways – I should say in many ways – if you see a women, if you visit them in a village, you can see women can talk to you.  If you go back five years before, they could not come in front of you, not as a foreigner, even Bangladeshi men cannot talk to them.  But now they are coming to you and talking to you, and very eager to show you what achievement they did last year, 20 years, 12, 15 years, and they want to show you their achievement and their children.  So there’s a difference, and normally in Bangladesh during that time…they will have some problem.  You cannot bring all the employment at one time.  It’s coming gradually.

0:31:11.0                                                             I already mentioned that women…doesn't bring the medicine for her, but now you see, husbands are bringing not only the medicine, they’re also bringing the doctor also.  So employment has come, because no more vulnerable women.

0:31:46.3                 Facilitator:                           …helping women to gain more confidence and also the work of setting up systems of microcredit, sometimes it’s the focus on changing the system, other times it’s changing…having more confidence.  Do you discuss both those things…

0:32:04.7                 Interviewee:                        Of course.

0:32:05.5                 Facilitator:                           With women…or is it…

0:32:08.5                 Interviewee:                        Okay.  You see the Grameen Bank is not that only you’re giving the credit.  I already mentioned about the 16 decision.  How the 16 decision came – when you’re going to the village and you’re talking to the people, you’ll see most of the case there’s a lot of problem, like for the sanitation plant.  They are not aware about the sanitation issues.  Children can use bushes any places.  Men can sit down anywhere, but for the women they…so you see what is going on in their world.

0:32:47.0                                                             So we started to talk about the sanitation plant.  Not only that, we start to give the sanitary toilet as a credit and we…in Grameen that if you want to take a housing loan you have to buy one sanitary toilet.  So it was…not only that at the same time we are talking about what can happen if you don’t have a sufficient sanitation plant.

0:33:16.6                                                             During that time diarrhoea and a lot of other common diseases, and if someone…lake of water…diarrhoea, so sometimes they’ll say okay, if somebody feels sick, they say okay, this is a snake…but it is not right.  So we start to teach them how to make the…so they drink it, they get better.  So we demonstrate, we talk to them, we make them aware, not only the women, we talk to the men, we talk to the women, we talk to the children.  And demonstrate how to make the oil slime, and demonstrate how to clean the family, and we also provide for the sanitation part toilet for the ring slab and also the…so now it is not a big problem in Bangladesh.

0:34:15.0                                                             We talk to the women about – we make a lot of workshops.  We bring 35 women in the meeting or one day workshops, we discuss all the issues.  What is your problem?  Why are you not getting better?  So they discuss…every time you’re going for a baby every year, so how it creates problems not only for the health issues and also for the working issues.  So we talk to them and the husband can have [unclear].  So we teach them to see – I’m not going every year for a baby.  You are losing your beauty and your husband is going…so why are you losing yourself and if you want to do something…you must keep yourself very fit and do something.  So they say okay, it is prohibited in Islam but it’s not true, so we talk to them to make them aware.  We talk to each other in the group in the centre, then okay, then you talk to the husband so we go to the husbands…

0:35:24.4                                                             When I start to talk about the family planning, after joining with Dr Yunus I was feeling…children, and the malnutrition baby…so I talked to Dr Yunus, can we talk to them about the family planning.  He’s going oh no, not now, not now.  I will tell you if the time comes.  Then maybe after six months, he told me that now we can talk to the women. 

0:35:48.8                                                             So one day I went to the…this is my normal job, I talked to the women and I’m talking in front of all the men about the family planning, though I’m not very much…because in our education system nobody teach us about all these issues.  So I just start talking the normal things, and I found after ten minutes later many men and women came to me and shouting at me, why are you talking all these notorious things.  Islam doesn't like it and okay – I just stopped and then I came back to my office after that and talked to Dr Yunus.  Dr Yunus told me no, no, Jan, not in that way.  You should not talk in front of other people.  What you should do, you find out some potential women, talk to them individually, convince them.  If they’re convinced, then talk to their family planning work, they have been introduced, so they will take what they want.  So we are starting that way.

0:36:50.4                                                             You see, about 70%, it was not that okay we bring all this – we have to talk.  We find out – they must understand what is their problem, then we took the decision in our first national workshop what to do, how we can achieve our goal.  So in that time ten decisions came, then in 1984 we had another national workshop, so another six decisions came so altogether now 16.  So you see all these decisions came from their own.  It is not – we tried to find out what is the real problem…this is a problem, how we can overcome the problem.  So this is involvement of the women.  So they came up with this idea and they came up with the decision.  So if you are a member of Grameen Bank you have to…the 16 decision.  You cannot separate Grameen Bank from the 16 decision, so this is…building programme of Grameen Bank, like a plantation, seed and settling.

0:37:57.4                                                             In Grameen during that time many women – most of the women – I should not say many – most of the women use normally rice and onion actually.  They’re not much…vegetable.  If they can full their stomach that’s fine, so we have to teach them the importance of the vegetable.  You know the blindness, night blindness, what is the cause for the night blindness?  So we start to talk to them about the importance of the vegetable, the importance of the fish, food, and start to provide seed and sapling to their…so they can cultivate all the seed and sapling.  They can eat it and as well as they can sell it to make money.

0:38:51.6                                                             So we provide seed but not without any…we must put some cost on that seed and sapling so they can start to…making them aware of the importance of the vegetable.  And now most of the Grameen Bank people know, and if you visit a Grameen Bank village you can see 100% sanitation, they have their own toilet.  So this is I should say a very comprehensive holistic programme to make better planning among all these people.  So it is not like that okay we are just giving some programme out.  We involve them, in bringing them from that situation.  So this is their programme.

0:39:41.6                 Facilitator:                           I think I should ask how the time is going, because we could talk to you all day about the sort of…women…more than 31 years, but how much time have we got left from your point of view?

0:39:52.7                 Interviewee:                        Okay, if you’ve finished that’s fine, or if you want five minutes that’s fine.

0:39:57.2                 Facilitator:                           Are there one or two things that we haven't talked about that you would particularly like people know about Grameen, very much we’re trying to say this is a most extraordinary service organisation I’ve ever met.

0:40:11.0                 Interviewee:                        I did not get your point.

0:40:13.8                 Facilitator:                           Are there things we haven't discussed, which you’d like people in the world outside to know about in terms of how a service organisation like this continues year in year out, and all the sort of courage and energy?  I mean, you put the same energy into the work every day and keeping that passion going.

0:40:34.4                 Interviewee:                        Actually if you touch the – to understand the poverty, to touch the poverty is very important things.  If I go back, I’m from the village, I was born in the village.  Every Friday there’s a lot of people coming to us begging, so I saw the poverty but I never saw poverty before the joining the Grameen Bank in this way.           

0:41:02.7                                                             So if you can understand the poverty, if you can touch the poverty, if you can feel the poverty then I think you can do a good job.  So it is important for anyone, for any in Bangladesh or any country of the world, to understand this thing.  If you understand properly and if it’s come from your own heart – one of the things, when I joined Grameen, Dr Yunus told me to write a case study.  Can you find out some women who are very outstanding women.  I don't know the reason behind why he’s talking to me to write a case study of some women.

0:41:54.8                                                             So I tried to find out – there’s a lot of outstanding women, but among them all who is the most – so I wrote two or three case studies and Dr Yunus gave me some input how to write a case study.  And when I started to talk to these women, I found a difference between her an me [speaking Bengali] – there is no difference.  We are the same women being of this planet.  Only the opportunity – they don’t have any opportunity so they’re [speaking Bengali] and my friends are able to give me the opportunity so I finished my masters degree from the university. 

0:42:42.2                                                             So these are the things – there is difference between Chelsea, daughter of Clinton, and there is no difference between the daughter of [unclear], we are the same people.  But the only difference like that – you have opportunity – she doesn't have the opportunity.  Dr Yunus has always mentioned that poor people are like Bonsai trees you are not giving them opportunity to grow up.  They’re always cutting.  Support people are the victim of the system.

 0:43:17.9                                                            So if you understand these things properly and if you understand the poverty…I think he can do a very good job and he can continue these things, if he understood.  This time of case study I give you, I think micro-study changed me a lot.  I understood and I found women in 1974 when we had a big famine.  Many people died due to starvation.  So when I was talking with that woman she mentioned that she lost her son, but it was not possible for her to put a new clock.  Normally in the [Singh] culture after a death you have to cover dead person’s body in white cloth, new cloth.  Due to that situation, the woman cannot afford to buy a new cloth for her son and she put her old sari’s – you see her son died, she cannot afford.

0:44:31.4                                                             So it gives me really a different kind of…I found that okay, this is my own responsibility to do something, so I think this changed a lot.

0:44:46.2                 Facilitator:                           One last question…I was picking up on the fact – earlier you were saying you were managing this large department organisation, and for you it’s easy, maybe now it’s easy…

0:45:28.7                 Interviewee:                        I should not have said easy, I think it’s not very easy but you have to do something.

0:45:32.9                 Facilitator:                           I’d like to ask, what makes it easy for you, perhaps because of time or whatever reason, so what makes it easy?  If you had a message for women in any part of the world that said it’s not possible to hold positions of responsibility in an organisation, where mostly it’s men, what would you say?

0:45:53.7                 Interviewee:                        Okay.  I think first of all if you see my – and I’m not sure whether you read Dr Yunus’s autobiography – what he mentioned about me.  You see I was an ordinary girl like other girls in Bangladesh, just only that I had the opportunity to go to the university level.  But my social situation when I started at the Grameen Bank, Dr Yunus told me to come to Komilla, this is another district, with another two women.

0:46:29.6                                                             And I was very surprised that Dr Yunus asked me during that time to come along with another two women to another district.  So I asked him can I bring some men with me?  He told me no, you cannot.  So I was really not feeling very good…but I had to do that.  I came along with three other women to Komilla zone, and after I reached the Komilla zone in the Komilla [bar]. Dr Yunus told me that now you have some responsibility to organise a culture function.  And you have to do that in the opening time at three o'clock.

0:47:10.8                                                             So you reach from [Zobra] to Komilla and now you have some more that you have to organise, some thing for show, a culture show.

0:47:22.0                                                             So I did it.  I hope I did a very good job and after I’d finished many people came to me and…well organised.  So it gives me some confidence, gradually I’m getting the confidence.  And you see, and coming from [Zobra] to Komilla, I asked Dr Yunus can I bring one person, any person with me?  He told me no.  But now today see, I am going to many countries of the world by myself…Dr Yunus taught me to depend on myself.  But after my masters degree, I always depend – when I’m going to the university my brother took me, when I’m coming back – so all the time there are some people helping me.

0:48:17.3                                                             But when I started my job, Dr Yunus taught me in that way.  So gradually I got my own confidence.  So confidence is a very important thing, if you’ve got your confidence, and of course I’m working in such an organisation, competition is everywhere, so to come into this position, it is not automatic.  You have to do many things.  You have to make many sacrifices so that you can come to that position.

0:48:59.1                 Facilitator:                           Thank you.  So wonderful.  It’s just such a pleasure meeting you.  Thank you very much.       




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